[[Edit on Feb., 15, 2010: Starbucks officially anounces the pour over system in the MyStarbucksIdea.com blogs:
Introducing Pour Over Brewing in the Afternoon
Check out that link for more information about the new pour over system which should be in all stores by early March 2010]]
The “pour over” brew method is coming to Starbucks soon. Just yesterday, I posted a blog entry about how inconsistent a customer will find the Starbucks “brew on demand” policy. In the comments to that blog, two Starbucks partners both hinted that their stores would be receiving pour-over brew method equipment soon! I tried to get a sense if this was simply a regional test or everywhere, and never got a clear answer. A few partners contacted me privately through either twitter or other means of contacting me, each confirming that pour over is coming soon to their stores. Either this is going to be a test in multiple regions, or a nation-wide launch.
Is “pour over” coming to Starbucks a good thing? ABSOLUTELY YES.
The two “mercantile” non-branded Starbucks are already using the “pour over” as one of their primary means of brewing coffee. For those who are unsure what the “mercantile” Starbucks are, please click here. A “pour over” involves a barista grinding enough beans for a single cup of coffee, using a cone brewer with filter, and then custom brewing one single serving of coffee by pouring hot water over the beans.
This brew method produces a coffee flavor close to the flavor profile from larger drip brewers because it is a brew method that uses a filter, unlike either a French press or a Clover cup of coffee. If one were to talk about four possible coffee brew methods, one would say that (1) “pour over” and (2) drip-brewer are very similar and (3) Clover and (4) French press have similar coffee profiles (though there is a larger difference to me between the Clover and a press, than as between the “pour over” and the drip brewer, in my humble opinion).
This is such great news that the pour over is coming to Starbucks. I remember hearing a rumor about six to eight months ago that the pour over was tested in Boston, but I never did get a chance to see it there myself. Previous mystarbucksidea.com threads, such as this one here, have long led to me believe that Starbucks has been experimenting with the “pour over” for quite a while. At times, customers have come to My Starbucks Idea to request that Starbucks implement a “pour over” brew method, such as with this thread here.
I believe this is absolutely the right direction for Starbucks to go because it reinforces their fabulous bean variety; it is a great move in the direction of being about the coffee; and gives the customer great choice. My only worry for this option is that it is fairly labor intensive and slow, and I worry that customers will not want to wait and baristas will not have enough labor to make this work. I guess time will tell. I also have a small worry that baristas will receive inadequate training to make this really effective and premium cup of coffee for the customer.
There are a few large suppliers of “pour over” cones: Two in particular that Starbucks has experimented with are (1) Melitta brand, and the other is (2) Hario USA brand. I don’t know which would be used for the wide-scale “pour over” launch.
From what I know, the steps to prepare a high quality “pour over” coffee are as follows: (Caveat: I am not a barista, and these instructions follow the “Hario USA” pour over brew method which is slightly different from the instructions for the Melitta brand.)
- Place paper filter in plastic cone.
- Pre-wet the paper, and toss out the little bit of water from pouring water all over the paper. This helps rid the coffee of any residual paper flavor!
- Grind beans on a setting a little coarser than espresso grind.
- Pour the ground beans into the paper filter.
- Measure out the right amount of hot water, which should be very hot at 202 degrees.
- Pour the water skillfully in the center of the beans.
When I posted yesterday’s blog entry on “brew on demand” I had no idea that something new would grow out of the comments. I had been slowly writing that blog, and it sat in my drafts half-written for a month. Finally, I figured I might as well post it. Looks like my timing wasn’t bad at all!
If any baristas have any thoughts about the “pour over” or any other brew method, please chime in!
[[Edit on 2-7-2010: From conversations with baristas, I am getting the sense that the “pour over” launch is about one month out from now.
One more thing: I wanted to provide a little more information on the “pour over” brew method, and stumbled upon this blog which gives some detailed information about brewing with the Hario cone.
My gut intuition tells me though, if Starbucks is going to launch hand brewing nationally, they’ll go with the Melitta cone brewer and not Hario. I only say that because my gut tells me that is the cheaper system to operationalize if you need to buy 10,000 cones!]]
[[Edit on 2-8-2010: Further gossip on this development that I’m hearing: Starbucks will launch this is all non-Clover stores on 3-8-2010, and will be using the Melitta cone system.]]
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We did this for about a month last summer in my store and have done away with it. It’s really not very good.
@Eric – why was it not good?
I think its a good idea to have it as an option, people like their coffee’s prepared different ways, so why not have the choice? the more the merrier!
Looks interesting. Would love to at least give it a try.
Melody, It’s funny that you should write this blog post today– I had my first ever pour over yesterday from a Chemex. I, at the same time, had a French press with the same beans. I’m a French press kind of girl you know, and the pour over was, as you say, very smooth and much like a drip. However, I prefer my coffee to have personality 🙂 I hope though that if this does make it’s way nationwide to all Starbucks, that the training is adequate and labor is increased.
Interesting, doubt it will come to my starbucks Mass Pk NY as the store always seems short on staff, no clover there either and as for a french press option I don’t think it exists in any metro/LI NY starbucks, maybe I should ask for one? A Bold variety is brewed all day along with Pike. Even though I always ask for bold they often fill the cup with Pike and then have to throw it out when I correct them. A real coffee house experience is still lacking on south shore of LI.
Actually, I don’t see this as being any improvement unless we (all over the country) get more bean selection. ??? It is definitely more labor-intensive and I see that as a problem…. might be worth it (the labor) for the ‘Clover’ but not for this. I remember having a commuter cup set like this yrs ago….late ’80’s, early ’90’s. ? I made my coffee for my break at work this way for quite awhile. There was a gold cone or paper option.
I would love to try this! My hope is that if it does come nationwide, that they allow the customer to choose the bean and not only use the bold pick of the week beans.
Even if they just offer a limited selection of beans available for a pour over would be fine! Thanks for this post Melody! Exciting!
(Reply to Hayley) – Your reply in this thread sort of signifies what has been a fundamental change that baristas have about the attitude around flavorlock packaging. At one time years ago, baristas easily grabbed a bag of beans off the shelf for sampling, to sell a one-half pound, or for coffee education. These days many baristas act like the flavorlock packaging is sacred and can never be disturbed.
Of course it is crazy for a coffeehouse to have that attitude. The only way you’ll ever get people excited about coffee is get them to smell it, to taste it, and maybe even buy a smaller amount to take home.
The *idea* that the “pour over” would only be for the coffee of the week is horrible and is antithetical to being a COFFEEhouse.
@GAStarbucksGirl Chemex is a bit different. Still a very good cup of coffee, but slightly different.
@Donna French Press is absolutely an option, but you might have more trouble getting it than Brew on Demand.
Everything at 15th Ave/Roy St is Hario, so I would assume Sbux is exclusive with them. Then again, the espresso machine at Roy St is not a La Marzoca, so I don’t know.
Another reason to pre-wet the filter (and I would say the most important) is that it absorbs a lot less of the coffee oils that way.
However nice it may be that you are approaching the idea of alternative brewing methods, I think that you’re attacking the quality problem with one tine of a pitchfork that requires at least 3 or 4 more. You could run every cup through the clover/hario/chemex, but there will be very little quality jump. The training of these baristas is minimal as well as the enthusiasm of said baristas.
But most of all, you’re can’t turn box wine into a delicate limited bottle with even the nicest crystal decanters. The product is still a well done even if you are buying kobe. Insert other not good food explanation here.
why not just make Via in all the different flavor profiles and we can just add water
Melody, perhaps you got a little confused in the other thread — the Bunn digital brewers, terrible though they may be, are here to stay. (Full batches overflow and quarter batches get cold too fast)
Pour over is coming nationwide starting with the spring promotion on March 8… I don’t know if it’s the focus of the promotion or just an adjunct thing…
Other speculation:
1) Melitta style or rack style? Don’t know.
2) Old tea latte canisters have been saved to use as part of the setup… hold beans? ground coffee?
3) Will some stores stop brewing decaf by drip forever? Is this a bad thing?
4) Coffee choices. I agree that we could have trouble with Flavorlock being “untouchable.”
I think you’re mistaken on the labor and the wait time. Cafe Mattina in Berkeley does all of their coffee by pour over and it takes 30 seconds at the most. A little longer if the beans aren’t preground.
Also, they don’t pour directly down the center…. you want to swirl the water so all of your beans get wet.
There’s also going to be some sort of 26 week coffee challenge that everyone in the company is supposed to complete…. I hear it was inspired by the 42 day challenge baristas posted on SG…
I am cautiously excited about this news! The drip coffee drinker will finally have some choice, without having to settle for PPR or rush in before noon. On the other hand, individual pour-over brewing has more variables that could go wrong: amount (mass) of beans, grind, water volume, water temperature, how the water is poured… When I visit 15th Ave Coffee & Tea and have pour-over coffee, it tastes very similar to, but not the same as, the same coffee brewed in a Starbucks commercial brewer. The Starbucks brew tastes subtly fuller and rounder. But between PPR and a hand-crafted cup of, say, Gold Coast, I’ll take the Gold Coast! 🙂
If the coffee challenge includes nothing more than like a pin, then I think its dead on arrival.
Remember a while back on MSI, Cecile had posted that she had some news to share later in the month regarding bold availability in the afternoons? This could be it!
@Bayareabux – The pictures above show a pour over using a Hario brand cone. I’ve heard it repeatedly said that with the Hario brand, it is recommended that you pour directly into the center of the beans, yet with the Melitta brand I think it is the exact opposite!
I think we might both be right!
With the Melitta, I slowly pour around the edges.
I heard about this… but haven’t seen the communications to support it for my store yet. I pray to the coffee gods that my store will be a pour over store. Just the fact that we could educate more customers about coffee is exciting. Change the way they see it.
@Bayareabux – I wish you would come back to this thread! So much interesting conversation here!
Whether you pour coffee in the center (the “Hario” method) or your pour coffee all around (the “Melitta” method) is the smallest part of all this – Seems unlikely it’s going to make any kind of a difference that any Starbucks customer would be able to discern.
It it completely interesting to wonder what will the old tea canisters be used for?? What did they look like? I never paid attention.
If you come up to 15th or Roy Street and watch them do a pour over, it IS labor intensive. There has got to be a way to streamline the process. Though hopefully they won’t do things like skip the first step of pre-wetting the filter.
JRMY added a good reason why that should be done, in addition to what I wrote.
I really remember a time when there was NOTHING sacred about flavorlock packaging. I hope that we go back to that mindset.
Even if Starbucks implements a very simplified version of what happens at 15th Avenue Coffee and Tea, I think this is a great step in the right direction. Everything about it is about being more of a coffeehouse and being about the coffee!
You mention a place in Berekely that does this, but i sounds like they use pre-ground beans! Ideally, beans should never be pre-ground! A real coffeehouse doesn’t pre-grind beans. But the reality is, that does represent another short cut that Starbucks could take where most customers won’t notice a difference and it will cut down on the time to do this, by a long shot.
Sorry to ramble. I’m just excited by this move!
It would be great if they set this up at every store. Pour over brewing used to be one of my favorites because a local coffee shop did it where I used to live. I find it all kind of ironic because I’m reviewing a Melitta pour over very soon.
I wish the Clover coffee canisters could come to all stores in support of this promotion.
One of the problems with the Flavorlock bags is that they are less than ideal for storing coffee once opened. I can’t really blame stores for not wanting to have a bunch of 3/4 full Flavorlock bags lying around.
God forbid we have suitable coffee storage containers in a coffee shop… we haven’t even been able to do this with COW yet. My store uses ice buckets to store the COW. Yes, ice buckets.
@Bayarea–explain more please?
Pour-over is coming to all stores by the end of the month. Stores will roll out the program individually as they receive the equipment via their weekly roasting plant orders.
We’ll be using Melitta cones and a custom-made stainless steel 2-cup “station” with a specialized water measurement cup.
The old tea canisters will be used to hold the *gasp* pre-ground coffee that will be measured by coffee scoop into the filter. The rationale behind grinding before measuring is to reduce the variance in measurement due to grinds retention in the Ditting grinder, which is designed for bulk grinding tasks.
There is a strong theme of coffee-focused initiatives in the new promotional period that are exciting for baristas and customers alike. I just typed up a huge entry but my connection dropped and I lost it all, so ask your local barista for details!
Sorry, I just had to chime in about the pre-grinding thing.
I think that if you use a “rounded” scoop of beans when measuring for a pour-over, your measurements should come out pretty much the same. I’m dying to do some experiments with my .01 gram scale from home on the Ditting to see what its average retention rate actually is.
Also, there is no “pre-wetting” step in the hallowed Repeatable Routine.
Doesn’t mean I still won’t do it. 😉 C’mon, I gotta keep up the reputation of that black apron!
That should have read,
“Doesn’t mean I won’t do it”
At my starbucks today ( Mass Park NY) I mentioned that I had never had coffee from a french press, the manager ground some Pike beans and brewed one for me. It was really good and I never drink PPB, it was so creamy and coffee tasting made the bold from the drip taste bitter. I am going to invest in a French Press pronto.
The pour over method is a great idea for those of us who love to experience single brew methods. I have been brewing single cups of coffee for over 20 years-long since it became popular.
I even roast my own coffee beans because so many of the large retailers over roast their beans. Since when did it become cool, vogue, hip, etc. to drink burned coffee?
For those of you interested in roasting coffee at home in simple $3 hot air roaster, shoot me an email or visit my blog-http://www.squidoo.com/homecoffeeroastersalley.
Cheers!
I’ve had pour over once at 15th Ave. Coffee. I really enjoyed it. I liked that it was made as a one person serving and for me it was slightly more rich than drip. (At least at home drip) The experience of it was very nice and I’m curious to see how that works out during the rush times at Starbucks. When I went in to 15th Ave. it was pretty mellow with everyone already seated and served (so maybe I was just lucky) The coffee house vibe sorta spreads out but at most starbucks I’ve been to there’s more of a commuter hustle and bustle vibe going on (and that probably the time of day I end up there lol). It seems a bit time consuming to effectivly service people in a “GO!!!” frame of mind vs. someone that has not were to rush off to and is looking to chill a bit 🙂 I hope it works out though!
Ooh Ooh Ooh. I’m so excited. I’ve never had pour over but I love the idea of more options. Our store has a tremendous amount of bold drinkers. We don’t brew on demand. We brew bold until we close.
But still, wouldn’t it be lovely to offer a Breakfast Blend to a customer who hates Pike and doesn’t want bold.
Our bean sales have seriously dropped since the introduction of Pike place. This is a wonderful opportunity to share different coffees.
Bring it on. Please……..
I had an inkling that it would be pre-ground… which probably means the choices will be Decaf Pike and the Bold Pick of the Week… and Flavorlock bags, which sell less and less these days, will stay hallowed.
And there’s a LEAN for this? Oh, God, save me.
I think it is funny that Starbucks thinks they invented everything. German and Swiss have made their coffee this way at least since the 50th! The most important aspect of coffee brewing is the coffee and the way it is roasted. To just burn the beans will not make a good coffee espresso or pour over a like!
Gee madelaine, did Sbux imply in any way that they invented coffee? Or pour overs? And since it appears that you don’t even like our coffee, why are you here being a downer?
Pour over method would be great if some pressure could be present. At least the equipment is cheap. How long does it take to make a venti cup using the pour over method?
French press i had for the first time the other day was amazing. Very hearty cups of coffee
That’s great news! Will the stores that do this start posting roast dates for the coffees they use in the pourovers?
I am not looking forward to “pour over”.
While it sounds simple, it can easily be done wrong by a hurried barista.
IMHO, only about 50% of the baristas take the care to properly brew in the big urns so they will be even less competent with “pour over” (misaligned filter, forgeting to dampen the filter, shorting the coffee load, too much/little water, water at improper temperature).
Sure hope the Starbucks “suits” realize that they need to add more labor for “pour over”.
-It seems the training has been reduced so I fear that this may not be executed as well as it could be (inconsistent, unclear direction or direction provided where hard to find). This was my greatest disappointment with the loose leaf teas (teas don’t get drowned in water forever, they get varying steeps by type) – the poor preparation of a great product.
-I am very excited to try a pour over, I usually get the drip for speed, french press if I have time and they aren’t busy (I feel guilty making them take a while on my drink when it’s packed) and I am always up to try new preparation methods (i even bought a stovetop espresso maker to try it). on my list of things to try; clover, Turkish made in Turkey and Greek made in Greece. I haven’t bothered to get espresso in Starbucks since they have the automated machines though.
-Will most customers wait? I don’t see many people at my Starbucks getting anything other than lattes or drip…it may not take much longer than a latte but i think the perception of lost time for just coffee may be there.
I’ve only read through some of the comments, but I have something to say, so I will 😉
I find this very interesting, interesting enough that if it comes locally, I may pop over to the corporate store just to give it a try (why not?).
re melody and the bags-you should see how many are open at our cafe right now 😉 We’ve been doing tastings (like I mentioned). I agree, how can customers be enthused about beans that baristas can’t describe? How can they describe them if they’ve never tasted them?
I’m a real hands on learner, so maybe that’s part of my enthusiasm. Now that I’ve tried the beans that I have, it sticks.
some more thoughts-A partner that hadn’t had a French Press? Did you not do your first tasting during training?
(sorry, not trying to be condescending, I just find it odd…and sad). I’m realizing more and more what a great cafe I work in and the passion for coffee and the standards that are upheld.
Also, I really hope this truly means getting back to the coffee 😉
http://mystarbucksidea.force.com/ideaView?id=087500000005lBUAAY
“Sure hope the Starbucks ‘suits’ realize that they need to add more labor for ‘pour over’.”
I promise you they will not care. Starbucks corporate hates labor with a passion. They will always do everything in their power to get the fewest number of people to to the most possible work they can conceivably get away with making them do, even if it means the customers suffer for it.
@ Enlightened Coffee Sage – Sorry, I forgot to enclose my Starbucks “suits” comment in the proper tag: … . ;0)
Oops, this blog does not like tags of any sort (even my attempt at fake ones) so let me try this to explain:
– start sarcasm – … – /end sarcasm –
where “-” = “”
Had the opportunity to introduce a friend to French Press this past weekend. Literally changed his life.
While “pour over” is a decent enough alternative to regular drip nothing compares to the flavor profile of French Press (unless of course you calculate in the convenience factor of easy clean up)
My father has prepared his coffee using a Melitta style technique since the 70s.
Actually, after the great Northridge Earthquake in Los Angeles, with the power out but the gas still working, he says “well, first thing, we gotta make some coffee!” and he pulls out a MANUAL HAND GRINDER to grind beans, then steams water and does the pour-over method to fill a Thermos. I will remember that forever!
Like others, I don’t see how this will fit into Starbucks’ current “laser-like” focus on eliminating employee hours in the stores.
I had a employee really get upset at me yesterday for purchasing/grinding a lb. of Caffe Verona and not Casi Cielo (since their goal is to sell 38 lbs) off the shelf.
I buy a lb. of coffee for the office every four days…it adds up….but sometimes I feel like some stores don’t care for the business!
If the barista can do a pour over of half Verona and half decaf Verona, I think Starbucks may be on to something!
(@DadCooks and Enlightened Coffee Sage, and KarlDotCom) – I definitely worry about how Starbucks is going to actualize the pour over in the stores.
Really, every drink is made up of two things: (1) the experience in the store and (2) the quality of the drink.
If we all just drank coffee in a vacuum, we’d probably be really surprised what we thought was fabulous coffee. Obviously many Starbucks customer cannot tell instant from brewed. Whether the grounds for the Pour Over have been pre-ground, or whether the filter gets watered through first for quality … these steps won’t make any difference for many Starbucks customers who don’t have any palate to know a difference.
But the experience part of the beverage is the persuasion that ‘yes I’m buying a drink really worth the price I’m paying and that really has been made with TLC’.
Howard Schultz has been 100% right when he talks about beverages needing theater and romance – use shot glasses, ground the beans right there in the store for the brewed coffee, every little step that the barista controls. And even when most customers cannot taste a difference (yet they all swear they can taste a difference), the theater and romance persuades the customer that the brand has a ton of esteem and its worth the price.
If “Pour Over” gets implemented in such a way to remove too many barista steps — the art of making coffee – a real pour over has an art to it–, while the coffee might even still taste fine to many Starbucks customers, it will come off as a sloppy cheap coffee choice that might as well be done just for camping emergencies.
By the way, KarlDotCom – I love your earthquake story!
Melody – I couldn’t agree more with you’re assessment of a drink being made up of 1. experience in the store and 2. quality in the cup.
The Hario drippers in general are in fact more expensive. The ceramic cones not only have beautiful design but unrivaled functionality. For aesthetic reasons the plastic is not as popular although it does bring ALL of the same functionality as the ceramic V60’s with exception of the ability to retain heat.
While function is COMPLETELY different, you can find many alternate drippers that may not have the same quality design, but have a decent aesthetic appeal for much less. This is the way to go if theatre is valued over cup quality. But you and Howard are absolutely right that theatre IS important. However if short cuts are taken on theatre, which is the strong point, then I question – what is left?
I will say as terrible as it sounds, cup quality is not compromised too much by having coffee pre ground so long as it is still done frequently enough each hour and not a task left for opening or shift changes.
My wife had a cup of coffee prepared in this fashion at a jazz club in Nagasaki Japan about twenty years ago. She says it was the best cup of coffee she ever had!
From what I heard today. I think you’ll probably find that the pour over method offers decaf pike and the bold pick of the week only. I’m told that any other special requests should still be prepared in a press.
(Reply to Michelle and Edwin Martinez) – I think this new pour over method is going to create lots of ambiguity in the stores. Michelle, I’m slowly hearing more info about the execution of the pour over and I hear so far:
* Only for tall and grande sizes
* Only during non-peak hours
* Only for decaf and bold coffee of the week
Of course the more “rules” that Starbucks creates, the more lines of ambiguity are drawn. What about the customer who wants to try something new like Verona, but Gold Coast is the coffee of the week? What if a customer says at 9:30 am “I really want a pour over of a certain coffee” and it’s slow enough at the moment to do it, but it’s not during the typical Pour Over hours.
@Edwin Martinez – It looks like from all that I hear, Starbucks is implementing a stream-lined, labor-efficient “pour over”. Hope it works. It won’t be the very best a Clover can be, but it’ll do in most circumstances. But I wish Starbucks would put more emphasis at doing something to focus on the experience rather than only emphasizing crunching tightly down on labor.